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Minister Bryant Visits Caledonia and Speaks with Residents

Part 1

Hi, Michael Bryant, Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.

I'm here in Caledonia at the Tim's. We are [Inaudible] there - spending some time talking to some folks.

It's about two years ago that the confrontation between Haudenosaunee/Six Nations began.

And what I'm hearing in there is a couple things. Firstly, not much has been happening. So it's cooled down.

But secondly, it used to be that there was a lot more integration. You would have seen a lot of Six Nations people here at the Tim's, and at the grocery store, and that isn't happening.

So the community is divided and it's one of the many reasons why we've got to negotiate a resolution.

I've been here a couple of times before. It's a great place to get the pulse of the community.

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Part 2

As the two-year anniversary comes up, people want to know what's going on.

Just ran into a fellow in the parking lot at Tim Horton's. His message was, yeah it's cooled down but people are nervous, they don't know what's to come, they don't know who to believe. And he said, you know, we just don't think the negotiations are moving along quick enough. He understands, though, that there isn't really an alternative.

The Ipperwash Commission, the public inquiry that Sidney Linden headed up, said, you know, you're not going to solve confrontations through violent conflicts or trying to round up people and throw 'em into the bucket. I mean, at some point, you've got to sit down and negotiate.

So, we're - so there are negotiations taking place right now. I've spoken with Chief Montour a number of times and with Chief MacNaughton at the Oneida Business Centre.

I spoke to Chief Montour today. I spoke to Mayor Trainer and council today. And I'm going to be meeting with Chiefs MacNaughton and Montour in a bit. And, you know, trying to find some common ground.

There's still a lot of good will here, amongst the community. There are people who - you know, one fellow said to me, we're all neighbours, we just got to find a way to get along.

I mean, that Tim Horton's used to be full of Haudenosaunee/Six Nations people and Caledonia townsfolk and same with the grocery store, and it's not like that anymore.Haudenosaunee are shopping up at Hagersville.

This community has got to find a way to heal and get back together. The first step is coming to an agreement through negotiations and then we've got to take it from there.

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Part 3

Michael Bryant, Minister of Aboriginal Affairs for Ontario, again.

Here is the bridge; there is the river. We are surrounded by the people of the Grand River - Haudenosaunee/Six Nations and Caledonia townsfolk. Great fishing spot, by the way, up there, right by the dam.

It's a community that lived very much in harmony up until two years ago. There were good times and bad times over the years. But as somebody said, you know, we've all been neighbours. We've got to get back to being neighbours.

I think most people in Caledonia have been extremely patient. They deserve a lot of credit for that - for being patient. Frustration is there. There is no question about it, a lot of frustration.

People want a resolution and I agree. We need to move things up, speed things up; get things going. It's important that we negotiate because that's the only way we are going to get an agreement.

But people have been telling me, on both sides, amongst Haudenosaunee/Six Nations and the people here. We're going to have to accelerate this somehow. We're going to do that. It was - it's about getting consensus, you know. Consensus in this community; consensus amongst Haudenosaunee/Six Nations. And it's difficult.

You know, back in the 1920s Haudenosaunee have one of the oldest democratic systems known to civilization. Literally.

The federal government came along and under the Indian Act got rid of the ancient confederacy system and replaced it with their version of how that community should be run. And really, ever since then, ever since that time in the 1920s, the community got divided. The community was divided. It was a disastrous decision by the government at that time.

At the same time right now, it makes it that much harder to get consensus as to what the community agrees upon. So, this problem - in addition to the claims and the disagreements being centuries old - the problem of achieving a result of consensus - same thing - very, very difficult.

Just as you have some people here unhappy with outsiders who come in here and put on big shows, protests, everything else. And it's not helpful. Same thing happens on the other side. And it can be unhelpful.

So, people have - by and large - been patient through it all. They deserve credit, but I understand that it's time to get moving. We've got to find a way to get them together.

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Part 4

So, this is it. This is the land that most people will refer to as DCE - Douglas Creek Estate lands. It's this territory that Haudenosaunee Six Nations considers part of their traditional territory.

As you can see now it's basically a big, vacant field where nothing is happening. Nothing is happening right now.

Last time I was here a couple of months ago there was like one person, two people on it. But by and large, it's just vacant.

That structure there was actually originally put up on the land by Haudenosaunee/Six Nations to distribute material and information, and it got burned down by somebody. So then it got built back up.

You will see over there a lot of the people who live right on the edge of the territory of this community - and there is a school back there where there is a fence that's been put up - and for those people when the activity was, when there was a lot of activity, it was pretty awful for them.

And, now the province of Ontario owns this land. So, everyone says, so what are we going to do with this land? Well, we've got to find something we can all agree to.

Don at the barbershop said, why don't we put up a swimming pool, a museum with a history of Haudenosaunee/Six Nations and the broader community and have a bunch of parkland and maybe a little bit of housing; real housing needs for Haudenosaunee/Six Nations. Water needs as well. And, he said, how about we do that so that we can get the kids of both communities swimming in the same pool, playing hockey in the same hockey rink, the museum celebrating the area instead of having it be the source of controversy. I don't know.

I'm going to be talking with Chief MacNaughton and Chief Montour in the next couple of weeks. And, you know, we will see if we can get some progress in terms of where we are at.

They are considering an offer right now that the federal government made with respect to one claim. That's the latest.

How are we going to solve this, people say? Well, we had a public inquiry on this, and spent a lot of money, people spent a lot of money on this public inquiry. It came out of Ipperwash.

The Ipperwash approach didn't work. Dudley George was shot and killed and nothing happened for 12 years - 12 years nothing happened at Ipperwash.

There was confrontation between the police and the first nations. Somebody got killed and nothing happened for 12 years. Oka confrontation. It still has not been resolved.

Here, so far, of course it's been incredibly disruptive. Just plain old rotten for the people who live here, for the Haudenosaunee/Six Nations community, for the Caledonia townsfolk, for the county at large.

And people have been patient, but everybody on all sides wants to move along. But the only way that we're going to get a resolution is an agreement. There's no other way to do it. It can't be the government imposing an answer. That's been done in the past with first nations and Métis and Inuit people and it's never worked.

Nor, I hear again and again from Caledonia townsfolk, can there be a winner and a loser in all of this. We got to come to the table and come to an agreement. We've got to move it along.

I hear that in my conversations with the people here and I hear that in my conversations with the confederacy and Chief Montour as well.

I look forward to an anniversary where the peace is made and a resolution is achieved and communities are shopping together, and swimming together and skating together and going to the same church like they used to.

That's the dream. And, it's just going to be a lot of elbow grease and some important decisions and consensus making on both sides.

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Part 5

I'm here at the other Tim's in the neighbourhood. I won't say it's Tim's number one, or number two; they're both number one in my heart.

I spoke to some people, late teens, early twenties. One had just moved here about a month ago, had no idea what I was talking about, had no idea what Douglas Creek Estate lands is and so on, totally unaffected.

The other young woman, student, lived here since she was nine years old, says it really hasn't affected her life. She's not happy with the fact that the media made it seem as if they were being held hostage in their own homes.

Everybody said that we'll make progress if all sides show each other mutual respect. Forget about all the legal mumbo jumbo, just if everybody treats each other with mutual respect I think we're going to get a lot closer to a resolution. That's what I'm going to be fighting for.

But I like your ideas. I got a lot of good ideas here. I got good ideas the last time I was here.

So, I'm around. I'd like to get your ideas, and together we're going to - we're going to get the communities back together.